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Valve adjustment

Mon, 2008-06-30 03:29 — motogpman

I am new to this forum, looks like a lot of good guys with good information. I am positng this about valve adjustments on the 1300. Any help is greatly appreciated! I have 2700 miles on the bike and this is the first service, I didn't take it in for the 600 initial due to $$ restraints and I like to do my own maintenance if possible. I decided to check the valves, I have a reasonable amount of mechanical experience, so why pay for something I can do myself.

I purchased a Repair-Pro manual, which the factory manual that the dealership showed me while getting a part number for the valve adjustment tool. There isn't much room, as someone here already pointed out, so I figured I would use this tool instead of trying to fit regular wrenches. After taking everything apart, I didn't remove the coolant or coolant hoses, which created a major issue on the intake side of the front cylinder. THIS BIKE HAS EVERYTHING CRAMMED TOGETHER UNDER THE TOP PORTION OF THE FRAME, so patience, some cold ones, and technical ability is needed. Start to finish was 4 hours, but I was taking my time and scratching my head a lot by the timing mark references in the manual compared to what I found on my bike.

After getting to all the valves, reading the manual and checking the gaps, now the bike is back together and the valves are tapping louder than before. It is not popping, backfiring or sluggish, but rather LOUD tapping. Since I purchased the bike, even with the stock exhaust, it did pop and back fire a lot, which I found odd from a stock bike. The valve noise was noticable as well.

The manual shows the "a" and "b" marks, but they do not match what is coming up on my bike's marks/sighthole. There are raised lines on the flywheel in a certain area, light lines that are straight or somewhat curved, but none that match the pictures. There are two seperate single mark lines and then a closer set of double lines on the brasslooking ring that runs the top outside portion of the flywheel . Those seemed to match up closer to the TDC stroke. When the front and rear cylinders were at TDC, there were no gaps on either the intake or exhaust valves, which I found odd. I even used the smallest feeler gauges, no gap what so ever. I checked at every rotation to make sure, after turning the flywheel counterclockwise slowing and watching the valves and feeling for the compression stroke. I ended up making the adjustments when the piston was at TDC ( used a flashlight to make sure piston was in right place while looking in spark plug hole). I find it odd that there were no gaps on any of the valves no matter where they were in the stroke. After each set of valves started the compression ( moving the valves open", I would back them up and check the clearances as well. At no ppint were there any gaps.

The bike will start and does not backfire or pop, but just a louder tapping noise when at idle. The noise is now louder when the OEM adjustments were in place. I have a hard time believeing that the factory would adjust these with zero gap, especially since the manual shows the preferred gap measurements, which I used .09 (int) and .15 (exh). I have adjusted valves on cars, superbikes and ATV's single cyclinder engines with no issues after a full teardown. Even on cars when I have adjusted valves, there has always been some kind of gap when at TDC. This situation throws me off and I don't want to ride or tear this thing back down at this point until I get some feedback from you guys. This is my first V-Twin cruiser and my other 2 twins are bucked and shim type superbikes.

Anyone else have this type of issue while checking the valves? Are these usually loud ticking valve noise engines? I think that the manual is poorly written by the way, very vauge compared to others that I have used. The manual I am using is from Repair-Pro.

Thanks for the help in advance and other than this issue, I love this bike and the compliments are always coming from people! Keep it upright!

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Wed, 2008-07-09 00:01 — kaelar

Just a thought...

In your comment you noted that the gap was .09 for intakes and .15 for the exhausts. The tag under the seat lists the intakes at .09mm-.13mm and the exhausts at .14mm-.18mm. This translates to .0035"-.0051" for intakes and .0055"-.0071" for the exhaust. Are you using the proper feeler gauges, and reading the units of measurement correctly? This may be a stupid question, and I don't mean to insult your mechanical acumen, but if you misread the clearances and, for example, thought .09mm was .009", that would explain the noisier tappets.

-kaelar

Tue, 2008-07-08 08:01 — Timman

Valve tick

I too never heard the valves on my bike until I went in for my first service at 2500KM (1500Miles), now I can here them but not until the bike is warmed up for about five minutes. When I asked the dealer about this he said that two of the valves were tight and had to be loosened, he also said it was no needed to adjust them until I put it away for the winter, or every second oil change or 13000KM (8000Miles). But never did explain the noise. I decided to call another dealer for a second opinion I called a dealer in a neighboring town that has a 5 star customer rating from Yamaha Canada, and the guy on the service counter said they never adjust the valves on any of there 1300's that they sold. And have never had any complaints.
I decided that I am just going to ride and enjoy the summer and next winter when I have lots of time on my hand I’ll buy some Yamaha tools and adjust things for myself.
PS: I just got drawn to go moose hunting this fall, happy birthday to meJ

Sun, 2008-07-06 00:54 — motogpman

Thanks for the replies! I

Thanks for the replies! I haven't had the chance to check back till today , but your inputs have been helpful.

Roadstravelled: If you have 12k on the bike and the Yamaha states they need to be checked every 4k, I would have them checked. Bucket and shim are used in higher revving engines and usually that statement of not being adjusted holds true, maybe he doesn't realize this is the old style of valves.

Tech 511:

The other bikes I have rebuilt were 2 strokes and 4 stroke engines. Obviously the 2 stroke engines were easier, LOL. Kawasaki's, Honda, Yamaha, and KTM 2 strokers. The four stroke engines have been Honda's, Suzuki's, Kawasaki's, Aprilia and as far as cars/trucks, Ford, Chevy, Mecedes, BMW, Porches, Volvo's. I worked as a mechanic when I was younger in a Euro shop. I have been tearing things apart since I can remember, that's why this bike has my head spinning. The actual tool I used looks different than what the manual shows too, but it was ordered using the yamaha part number listed in the RepairPro manual: page 3-6, stamped on the tool is the YM -04154 part number. Damn thing cost $50, but it's worth it with such little room to move around. I used regular angled feeler gauges that I've had for years.

My manual states to rotate counterclockwise when checking for TDC and the marks, I will have to take a closer look in the sunlight, although I was pretty well lit in the garage with a strong flashlight for looking into the sight hole. The clearest marks were the ones on the brass looking outer ring and I did realize that the a and b marks in the book were not supposed to be stamped on the crank. The lines on the crank were strange, slightly raised and about 20 in all, but nothing that looked like what the pics in the manual looked like. THe only thing is that I was doing this at midnight and only a few beers though, LOL. Either way, I'll report back on what I have found.

I had thought that I might not have the cylinders in the right TDC stroke position on both cylinders, so beofre I made any adjustments, I made sure to rotate the crank several full rotations and it was odd that there was no gap at any stroke/revolution. I actually looked and reread the manual several times, actually had the laptop with me at the bike and it still didn't help. I will be checking again and using your advice as well today when I go back through the bike. Thanks for the info on downloading the material from this site. The valves were making a slight tapping before hand, just a lot more louder now. I figured that at least some time in the rotation, there would have been some kind of tolerance, but there wasn't. I will try to take some actual pics of what the timing marks on my crank look like as a reference. I can handle the noise as long as I know that it's normal for this engine and not doing some damage. I still find it odd that there were a lot of popping while all stock, I just figured it was due to tighter emission regs and being EFI.

I am assuming that you thought the tapping was louder, enough for a concern, which sounds like my experience. I would be even more concerned if I had paid to get the same results, but it is nice to know your experiences. That makes me feel a little better and the fact that you called them means that it had to be loud enough to garner your attention. I'll make sure to report anything I find and possbly post pics of the process.

Thanks again everyone.

Sun, 2008-07-20 03:53 — tech 511

no slight intended

No slight intended on your ability , hope none was taken , just needed to get on the same page on the valve adjust . I've read the way they want you to do it seems a lot more complicated than it needs to be . Think I'll watch the intake valves as they close the next stroke is comp. stick a straw down the cyl find tdc and if any of the ref. marks come close . if not I know valves are closed and adjusting them is o.k. . I'm going to do the ck . at 4000 miles . Had the dealer listen to them at the 600 mile service said they sounded fine , haven't got any quieter since . I think they are loud when hot . thank you for the tool # . Seeing as you had no tolerance at any stroke sounds like you caught a big problem before it caused a much larger one .

Sun, 2008-07-06 00:55 — motogpman

thanks for the replies

THanks everyone!

Wed, 2008-07-02 19:47 — Roadstravelled

How Necessary is the Valve Adjustment?

I have read many posts concerning adjusting the valves on the 1300. The mechanic at my dealer told me that he seldom adjusts the valves on the V Stars because they simply do not need it. I am nearing 12,000 and asked about having it done with my next service. Is my mechanic correct? I have had nothing but great luck dealing with Lane's Yamaha and have always trusted their opinion in the past. I just want to make sure I am not skipping a service that needs to be done. Just as added information. I have seen no decrease in performance at all in the bike. I know that the valves have not been adjusted as of yet either. Thank you for any imput.

Sun, 2008-07-06 20:13 — ripsnort

valva adjustment

I just bought an 07 1300 new. The owners manual maintenance schedule says to check valve clearance at 600 mi. and every 4000 thereafter. This is also most distressing for me since this is a bit of a job for me to do or expensive for a dealer to do.

I plan to call the yamaha corp. to see if this is actually needed so often. This will determine if I sell the bike or not. Otherwise I like the bike.

Mon, 2008-07-07 14:18 — Hetty1300

Here in Australia our Yamaha

Here in Australia our Yamaha service manuals state to adjust valves at 20,000km (12,500 mile) intervals. They are not adjusted at the first service either. It seems strange how here and the USA vary so much.

Jeff

Wed, 2008-07-02 10:36 — tech 511

no gap ?

I think that's odd also . Read the manual down loaded from this sight . It took a little time of looking at the diagram to understand what I was looking at if you're diagram is the same , pretty sure it is . You can see the sight hole , thru the hole there is a line it is the first of a series (3 of the them ) , first going clockwise . this is for the front cylinder . it also states in the note that if there isn't any gap to rotate the engine 1 turn (360 degrees ) counterclockwise this will put it at tdc . then to set up the rear cylinder to rotate the engine. counter clockwise 300 degrees this is from the point of the front cylinder being at tdc . just going over it so we're on the same page . now my thinking is you may have adjusted the valves on the wrong stroke opening them up more . reason for them being louder . the letters shown are just for clarity in steps . the good news is opening them up shouldn't hurt the engine , I would recheck them . This being a 4 stroke engine not 2 stroke is a bit different you didn't mention if your others were 2 or 4 stroke . don't know If I helped any or made things worse . I have not adjusted mine yet going to , I'm a journeyman automotive tech at a dealership . tinkering with my bike will be a change of pace . by the way would you happen to have the #'s of the tools you bought ? brand name ?

Wed, 2008-07-02 19:23 — Strkzone

In my case, the valves

In my case, the valves started tapping a bit at around 1000 miles on the bike. I, like you am a mechanically inclined but decided to let the shop handle the initial adjustment at 2000 miles. ($352.00 USD). I also noticed that the valves were actually louder than they were when I took the bike in after the adjustment. I called the shop manager back and gave him my 2 cents worth about the noisy valves and he told me that this is normal on Yami's. Not sure that is particularly true but the only thing that I have to compare to in a Yamaha is a Road Star 1700 that I tested out before buying the 1300. Sweet bike but air cooled and carbed and the motor we NOISY AS HELL. The only other bike I have had since I took a sabbatical from riding in '87 was the '03 Honda Shadow ACE I bought in '04 and traded in on my 1300. It was nice and quiet.

I let the valve tick slide though. With valves there are a couple of things to remember. Hearing them is not necessarily a bad thing. As long as they're within listed spec, you're fine. Valves that are adjusted too tight, at the least will decrease performance and fuel mileage. In the worst case you run the serious risk of burning the valves if they are too tight. Given what it would take to replace, grind, re-seat the valves even doing the work myself, I think that I can handle the valve tick.

Tue, 2008-07-08 04:31 — hatch

Had mine done by the dealer

Had mine done by the dealer at about 750 miles. He said that they didn't need adjusting every 4,000 miles, but suggested 8,000. Mine has a bit of a tick more than when it went in, but not enough that i'm going to get concerned. And while its true that you want them looser rather than tighter, too loose causes accelerated wear on the cam face, etc.
Still, i can see me doing them in the future rather than the dealer.

Mon, 2008-07-21 06:17 — charleseblue

Valve adj.

I took my 07 1300 T back to the dealer for its 600 mile service,they
said eveything was fine(checking the valves)I now have 2000 + miles
on it and it still sounds the same.I will check them at 4000 my self and
see what I have.Iam very pleased with this bike.My 73 Honda 750 has
86,900 on it(still ride it to work)and only gets valve adjustment when
it gets noisey.About 6 times in the 26 years Ive had the bike.